Five Years of the Irregular Warfare Initiative Podcast: Bridging the Gap Between Scholars and Practitioners

Editor’s Note: Today marks five years since the launch of the Irregular Warfare Podcast. What started as a small project by three military graduate students has grown into the Irregular Warfare Initiative, an influential platform for scholars and practitioners to share ideas on topics ranging from information warfare and counterterrorism to security assistance and cyber operations. While conventional and nuclear threats from China and Russia dominate attention, the initiative highlights the continued relevance of irregular warfare globally.

Remembering the Why

At its core, IWI was born from a dual conviction. First, that irregular warfare remains the most common form of conflict in the modern world – but that it is frequently misunderstood. And second, that the sacrifices and insights of those who fought during the Global War on Terror must not be forgotten.

In May 2020, the Irregular Warfare Initiative launched its first podcast episode, setting a precedent for serious, informed conversations that bridge scholarship and operational insight. From the beginning, the podcast tackled the complexities of ‘small wars’—the most persistent form of warfare in the modern era—one that defies easy headlines and demands deeper understanding.

Five years later, the Irregular Warfare Initiative podcast has become a trusted platform for those who live, study, and shape the world of irregular warfare. With more than 1.3 million downloads and listeners in over 180 countries, the podcast remains true to IWI’s founding mission: bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners while preserving the hard-won lessons of the past two decades of conflict.

The podcast keeps that conviction alive. Each episode offers a captured lesson, a thoughtful debate, or a story that resonates. It’s a way of preserving knowledge, sharing across borders and generations, and preparing for whatever lies ahead. Its continued growth reflects a clear appetite for informed, nuanced conversations on irregular warfare. With a social media following of more than 35,000, the initiative has emerged as a go-to resource for navigating the contours of modern conflict, underscoring both the global relevance of irregular warfare and the value of sustained dialogue.

But the podcast is more than a platform, it’s part of a larger vision. IWI seeks to embed irregular warfare as a central component of national security thinking. In a world defined by hybrid threats, strategic competition, and unconventional challenges, irregular warfare is not niche and cannot remain the focus of only a subset of national security experts. Thanks to the tireless efforts of more than 70 volunteer contributors, including practitioners from across the joint force and interagency partners, as well as researchers from top institutions, IWI continues to facilitate greater understanding of IW as a national security imperative for today’s challenges.

A Legacy of Connection and Inquiry

The podcast’s first episode, released on May 21, 2020, tackled the theme “Small Wars, Big Data.” In it, Jacob N. Shapiro, co-director of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project, drew from his groundbreaking research to make the case for evidence-based approaches to irregular warfare. It’s fitting, then, that five years later, Jake continues to support the irregular warfare community through our platform—most recently by publishing a review of the book Winning without Fighting with IWI editorial. Back during that first episode, Jake was joined by Col. Pat Howell, then-director of the Modern War Institute. That episode set the precedent for IWI’s unique podcast model that has carried forward ever since: conversations that marry academic rigor with real-world insight.

Since then, the podcast has featured voices from across the security landscape: senior defense officials, combat-seasoned operators, policy experts, and leading scholars from the United States and around the world. The aim is not to create echo chambers but to challenge assumptions, ask hard questions, and advance thinking on the most prevalent form of conflict in today’s world.

Episodes that Shaped the Discourse

Episode 100, titled “Secret Wars: Covert Action and Irregular Warfare,” featured Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Michael K. Nagata and political scientist Austin Carson and was hosted by Matt Moellering and Frank Struzinski. The guests explored the often-blurred lines between covert, clandestine, and irregular operations, delving into how these activities can support (or complicate) policy goals. Their conversation underscored the continued relevance of irregular warfare in both gray zone competition and conventional conflict, offering listeners a masterclass in both theory and application.

Another standout, Episode 102, “Strategic Disruption by Special Operations Forces,” examined how U.S. special operations forces can preemptively disrupt adversaries’ strategies. With insights from Christopher Maier, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict, and Eric Robinson of RAND, the discussion moved beyond tactics to explore how SOF can shape the strategic environment during both peacetime competition and war. Hosted by Ben Jebb and Nathan Kaczynski, the episode offered a frank assessment of interagency coordination, capability development, and the future role of SOF in integrated deterrence.

Episode 98, “Stay Behind Operations,” took listeners into the shadows of resistance warfare. Brian Petit, retired U.S. Army Special Forces Colonel, and Marta Kepe, senior defense analyst at RAND, examined how small nations can prepare for potential occupation by building clandestine networks of resistance. Hosted by Ben Jebb and Adam Darnley-Stuart, the episode underscored the continued importance of resilience, national defense planning, and unconventional deterrence, especially in an era of renewed great power competition.

Episode 96, “Active Defense: China’s Military Strategy Since 1949,” offered listeners a sweeping historical analysis of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) and its evolution over the past seven decades. Featuring Lieutenant General (Ret.) Charles Hooper, a former U.S. defense attaché in Beijing, and Dr. M. Taylor Fravel, one of the world’s foremost scholars on Chinese military strategy, the episode unpacked how revolutionary origins, party dynamics, and technological advancements have shaped the PLA’s doctrine. Drawing on Fravel’s book Active Defense, the conversation explored China’s approach to irregular warfare, hybrid threats, and strategic competition, particularly in flashpoints like the South China Sea and Taiwan. The episode underscored the importance of understanding China’s military trajectory as both a conventional and irregular challenge for the United States and its allies.

Together, these episodes form a cohesive narrative about the evolving role of irregular warfare in modern strategic competition. The series demonstrates how non-traditional tactics—when integrated into broader policy frameworks—can serve as both a deterrent and a shaping force in the global security environment. Whether confronting adversaries like China or preparing small states for occupation, these conversations underscore the growing necessity for adaptive, whole-of-government approaches that blend conventional strength with irregular insight.

Where We’ve Been, Where We’re Going

Five years after its launch, the Irregular Warfare Podcast continues to analyze and make sense of the long arc of recent American history, preserving lessons from the past and applying them for the challenges of today and tomorrow.  

Its most recent episode, Episode 127, “The Inheritance: America’s Military After Two Decades of War,” epitomizes this mission. Hosts Ben Jebb and Alisa Laufer spoke with the Honorable Mara Karlin and retired Major General John Ferrari. Drawing from Karlin’s newly published book, The Inheritance, the conversation examined the enduring consequences of the Global War on Terrorism, …not only on the U.S. military, but on national security policy and American society. Karlin, who served under six U.S. Secretaries of Defense, reflected on how institutions grapple with lessons from prolonged irregular conflicts. Ferrari, a former strategic planner for Operation Iraqi Freedom, added perspective on how these lessons translate into budget priorities and institutional behavior.

Their reflections brought the IWI mission full circle: from documenting hard-fought lessons of the past to preparing the United States and its allies for future irregular and hybrid threats.

Looking Forward

As IWI commemorates five years of podcasting, we do so with a deep sense of gratitude and with knowing that the work is far from over: for our listeners, our contributors, and our mission. The world is not getting simpler, and the threats are not getting easier to define. But the community of irregular warfare professionals continues to grow, question, and adapt.

We’re proud of what we’ve built, and we’re just getting started.

Here’s to the next five years.

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Kate Espinosa is the Deputy Editorial Director at the Irregular Warfare Initiative.

The views expressed are those of the author(s) and do not reflect the official position of the Irregular Warfare Initiative, Princeton University’s Empirical Studies of Conflict Project, the Modern War Institute at West Point, or the United States Government.

Main image: Photo by Senior Airman Zachary Foster available via DVIDS.net

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